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Bourzat is currently under significant scrutiny due to allegations of ethical and sexual misconduct as well as due to her involvement with her husband, Grossbard, who has other allegations against him as well. These allegations have grown in their thoroughness since first reported in Nov of ’21 and there is seemingly serious credence to their legitimacy.

As it stands, I am leaving this conversation with Bourzat up as the content itself remains beautiful and valuable. BUT!!! these other issues around Bourzat exist in the context of this conversation too, and should be known.

Both because knowing about these allegations is important info before involving/investing yourself into her work. And also because the scrutiny she is under is a part of a larger process of upheaving the underground psychedelic therapy institution to correct for systematic allowance and defense of harmful and abusive acts.

There are a number of articles and now a podcast specifically about this, and I encourage you to check them out if you would like to inform yourself more deeply on this issue.

– James
Jan, 2022

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***See below for a complete topic breakdown.***

Join us on Reddit at r/ATTMindPodcast to discuss this episode.

Sacred Mushrooms; Magic Mushrooms; Psilocybes; Teonanacatl; Los Niños; Niños Santos

The Sacred Mushrooms, psilocybe

There are many culturally specific names for the psilocybin mushrooms, some begin, others revering. Each name, however, carries a complex of meaning that reflects where the mushrooms reside in that cultural context of use. That context, internal and external, positions the mushrooms in relationship to the user, and the user in relationship to the mushrooms. The meaningness of those relationships informs the subjective nuances of the mushroom experience, awakening (or officiating) the profound value they might offer us in becoming better, healthier, happier people.

How we regard the mushroom, reflected in the language we use, influences what it can offer us and how we engage in relationship with them.

What then is the meaning complex that comes about when that relational regard is best described with the term Sacred Mushrooms? Furthermore, what might we unlock for ourselves if we choose to get on board with a relationship such as one that reveres their sacredness?

We feature Francoise Bourzat on the show to explore these questions. To explore and wonder about the sacred mushrooms, what they offer us, how we might deepen our relationships with them, and how they might help us show up better in the world.

franchise bourzatFrancoise Bourzat holds a MA in Somatic Psychology from New College of California (San Francisco, 1990). She is a certified Hakomi Therapist (1991). She is an adjunct faculty in the East-West Psychology Program at CIIS. Since 1987, Francoise has apprenticed with shamans and healers in the U.S. and Mexico. In the last 20 years, she has traveled with groups to Mexico, incorporating her counseling practice experience with her knowledge of expanded states of consciousness where she partners with Mazatec healers in Sacred Mushrooms ceremonies.

She is also the author of the book Consciousness Medicine, which showcases her decade long knowledge, bridging indigenous practices and Western psychology. [instagram giveaway of her book happening now]

Francoise joins us on Adventures Through The Mind to discuss the Mazatec mushroom tradition and her decade-long journey bridging indigenous wisdom with the western tradition while apprenticing under traditional mushrooms curanderas. She joins us to help us better understand the wisdom of the sacred mushrooms and how we might deepen our relationship with them.

Follow Francoise Bourzat on Instagram and Twitter.

discuss this episode on our subreddit



Episode Breakdown

  • What is different about Francoise’s approach to healing with psychedelics and expanded states of consciousness
  • The cultural loss of focusing too much on the psychedelic experience itself
  • The value of using psychedelics and expanded states of consciousness for personal transformation
  • Applying the holistic model for a balanced life to psychedelic healing
  • The central importance of nature wisdom in the Mazatec tradition
  • The role of spirits in Mazatec mushroom healing
  • You have to come with a question for the mushroom to ‘doctor’ you
  • “when the mushroom takes residence in you”
  • The mushrooms are more than tools; they are a living entity
  • Everything exists in relationship
  • We and the mushrooms share the same mother
  • The inherent wisdom of the mushroom and how to awaken it
  • The relationship goes both ways; “The mushroom gets to know you”
  • Does ketamine or MDMA have an intelligence?
  • The space the MDMA creates in us is a holy space
  • Legacy of use is important, but anything that opens a holy space within us is deserving of relationship
  • What about people who take mushrooms and still embody hate and violence?
  • Shadow work with sacred mushrooms can get ugly
  • What it means to metabolize the shadow
  • The role of Compassion and self-compassion in deep healing with mushrooms
  • Repairing the broken bonds between parents and children
  • The Mazatec’s cultural perspective on avoiding sex and mushroom healing
  • Bourzat’s perspective on Sex, and psilocybin and psychedelics in general
  • Sexual healing during a psilocybin mushroom ceremony
  • The stages of psychedelic integration and what practices fit best during which stages
  • The vital importance of embodying our psilocybin lessons.
  • The role and importance of community in psychedelic integration


Francoise Bourzat’s Main Website

This is where you can find a full collection of Francoise’s work, including her free online course on Consciousness Medicine, more articles and interviews with her, and where you can sign up for her newsletter (bottom of page).

Follow Francoise Bourzat on Instagram and Twitter.

Consciousness Medicine: Indigenous Wisdom, Entheogens, and Expanded States of Consciousness for Healing and Growth

^^^Francoise’s Incredible book!!


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1 Comment

  1. cannabis saved me from death from seizures.
    tarantula venom brought back my senses.
    mushrooms brought back my memory.
    ayahuasca, lsd, bofu/sapo, peyote realigned my brain waves.
    instagram @myayahuascahealings

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