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***See below for a complete topic breakdown.***

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This episode will explore entactogens, which are drugs like MDMA, 2C-B, and Methalone. Our guest is Matthew Baggott.

Matthew Baggott Tactogen Adventures Through The Mind podcastMatthew Baggott is a neuroscientist who has worked over three decades to legally study MDMA and related molecules. His research has ranged from studying the neurotoxicity of amphetamines in rodents to studying changes in emotional experience in people who have been given MDA or MDMA in a laboratory setting. Matthew is co-founder and CEO of Tactogen Inc, a public benefit corporation that is developing a next-generation of gentler, more accessible MDMA-like medicines. Before starting Tactogen, Matthew was a Director of Data Science & Engineering at Genentech. Matthew studied philosophy as an undergraduate at University of Chicago and earned his PhD in neuroscience at University of California Berkeley.

We start with setting a basic framework for what an entactogen is and a few example drugs, before exploring the complexities in their various effects, mechanisms of action, and both the legislative and technical process of the development of novel or new entactogenic drugs.

Being that most entactogenic drugs are some variation of MDMA, we do quite a lot of discussion about MDMA as a molecule, as a medicine, and as a drug out in the world. This includes an in-depth discussion on the pharmacology of MDMA, the neurological basis of the so-called loss of magic phenomenal, and an emerging theory on how to bring the magic back through a nutritional supplement called N-acetyl-Cystine.

There is also some discussion on the anti-fun moralism in what society deems as medicine, the importance of developing take-home entactogens that can be prescribed off-label, and the negative social consequences of prohibitionist law enforcement

Finally, in the final act of this interview, we discuss the psychedelic biotech industry as a whole, some problematic moves being taken by various companies in the space such as patent trolling, and how Tactogen is trying to do better for both psychedelics and psychedelic users.

What Do Psychedelic Medicine Companies Owe to the Community?
(the article from Matthew Baggott we spoke to multiple times)


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Episode Breakdown (and timestamps)

  • (0:00) Opening
  • (2:44) Guest Bio
  • (4:06) Patreon thanks | Support The Show
  • (5:42) Interview begins
  • (6:31) What is an entactogen and what does it do? | The difference between entactogens and psychedelics
  • (8:37) A short discussion about 2C-B
  • (11:47) A list of different entactogens
  • (15:30) r-MDMA vs s-MDMA
  • (19:48) Methalone, aka bk-MDMA
  • (21:52) 3-MMC and 4-MMC: patents, development, and legality
  • (23:13) Why Schedule 1 makes drug development difficult
  • (25:02) The qualities they are trying to design OUT of new entactogen drugs (pt1)
  • (26:31) “The loss of magic” with MDMA
  • (33:11) Serotin transporters and MDMA neuro-oxidization
  • (36:27) Using NAC to bring back the MDMA magic | enhanced plasticity, antioxidants, and homeostasis
  • (44:13) The qualities they are trying to design OUT of new entactogen drugs (pt2)
  • (48:52) Why we need “take home” entactogenic drugs
  • (53:20) Can a drug still be medicine if it’s fun, too?
  • (58:13) The process of justifying off-label MDMA prescriptions
  • (1:03:01) Will there be a moral backlash against the development of “good feel” drugs?
  • (1:11:10) The negative social consequences of prohibitionist law enforcement
  • (1:15:58) We can’t just give people psychedelics and expect society will get better
  • (1:18:46) Problematic moves in the psychedelic biotech industry
  • (1:25:01) Psychedelic Patent Trolling
  • (1:32:15) How Tactogen is trying to give back to psychedelic users
  • (1:44:16) Increasing access to health care, not just to psychedelic substances
  • (1:49:40) Follow-up link and contact details
  • (1:51:25) closing

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